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Old 01-12-2011   #1
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Default Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.

Well, its been a while since ive been on here. Last year i didnt register my '89 fox due to it having a couple of major issues that i couldnt afford at the time, and really still can't, but i miss driving it, and i miss getting 23 MPG's! It still has major oil pressure issues from the Watkins Glen run 2 seasons ago now. So ive put 20W 50 in it and ended up driving it the rest of 2008 summer, still smokes at times, but runs decent. The 3.08 rear end is leaking perfusely, and has so much play in it gives you whiplash to drive. So the first fix is going to be the rear end and then moving to the swap. I have a rear w/ Ford Racing 3.73 gears installed, with extra clutches packed in by 64FatBlock. There are two bushings in the top of it that i need to replace. What are they called and which brand should i get? Im also going to post some other info ive found out i needed here so i can refer to one place. Now to the engine, its out of a '93 Ford Lightning. So its a 351W with the GT-40 tubular intake. Was said to have in the 120K mile range, ran excellent and was owned by an elderly couple. Planning on dropping it in stock right now, due to expenses. But i really just want to drive it more than race it, miss going to the cruises n' stuff. Later on down the road i will remove it again and build it to something insane. Will start posting pictures when i get started this weekend.
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Michael, yes another one of the 4,200,415.
1989 LX 357w Hatch
Lightning Block, Bullet Cam, Pro-Comp 210's (< Powered the mother ship in unison with the b-cam), GT-40 Tube, Pro-M 80mm, Lightning T/B, T5Z, 3.73's.
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Old 01-12-2011   #2
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Default Re: Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.

BY: 88BlueGT

The 351W is a Windsor class engine. It is made on the same factory line as our beloved 5.0. However, the 351 posseses several qualities that make it a desirable block for an engine buildup. The advantages of using a 351W vs a 5.0 (302):

Obviously, you get an extra 49 cubic inches of displacement. As the saying goes, there is no replacement for displacement. Second, the webbing in the lower half of the block is thicker, making the block stronger. Third, the crank has bigger main and rods journals, making the cranks more durable than their 302 counterparts.

FACTS: What you need to know/consider when you swap a 351W into a Fox3 platform chassis:

The 351 block is very similar to the 302. That means that almost all parts swap between a 302 and a 351. This includes: Heads, cam, lifters, timing chain, timing chain cover, water pump, engine mounts, and all sorts of other stuff. The bellhousing bolt pattern is the same as a 302, so all trannies that bolt to a 302 will bolt to a 351. However, there are some differences in the 351 that necessitate new parts:

1) The oil pan is different. Motorsports carries one. You can also get an oil pan of of an early eighties LTD Crown Vic. If you go the junkyard route, remember you also need a oil pan pickup tube, and a special main bolt that the pickup attaches to. The FMS pan is a pretty good deal, and if you shop around, you can get one for under $100, which comes with the dipstick, bolt, and pickup tube.

2) The internal balance of a 351W is the same as pre-81 302's (28.2 oz). The 5.0 HO has a 50 oz. unbalance, which means you cannot use the flexplate/flywheel or the harmanic balancer off of an HO engine. You have to get the correct pieces from a dealer/junkyard.

3) The deck height is higher, which means you need a different intake, since the 351W intake is wider. A 5.0 Upper will bolt to a 351W lower.

4) Also, a higher deck height means that the accessory bracket will need to be replaced. FMS sells the new bracket for about $50.

5) The higher deck height means the headers sit up higher than in a 302 powered Mustang. A special set is required for a 351.

6) A 351W will in all likelyhood not clear the stock hood. You will need a cowl hood for your car.

7) The distributor has a fatter shaft. You can obtain one from a 351W powered FI truck (if you are using FI) or any late 70's/early 80's car using the 351W and a Duraspark system if you are going to build a non-efi car.

Those are the major differences. As you can see, for about $1000 you can put a 351W in your Mustang. This is cheaper than a stroker, plus you wind up with a more reliable engine.

Tips: There are several things to look out for to ensure that your swap to a 351W is easier and more successful. They are as follows:

1) A high volume oil pump WILL NOT clear the FMS pan. If you want to run an HV pump, you must either modify the pan, or buy a Canton or similar pan, for many dollars more. The modifications just include cutting down the front drain bolt, and welding on a corner to the pan to clear the pump housing.

2) Get new motor mounts. If your mounts are questionable already, the additional weight of the 351W will make them fail in a hurry. I recommend the 87-93 convertable mounts, which will work in any 79-93 Mustang.

http://www.fast351.com/tech/351w.htm


BY: Vristang

Camshaft-
The specs of the cam will depend mostly on what your goals are for the motor. Cam spec selection is way beyond the scope of this FAQ. What you want to watch out for is selecting the correct base circle for the deck height and lifter combination, and using the stock 302 HO firing order (since you are most likely reusing the stock 302 computer). Probably the best thing you can do is ask the company you plan on purchasing the cam from, what would be appropriate for your application. They will need to know what year the block is and what lifters you plan on running. Additionally it may be helpful to have your rocker ratio available, and what piston you will be using if not stock.
Here is some unverified info on Ford 302 & 351w firing orders.
early 289 & 302 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
302HO & 351w 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 (this is all 83-93 Mustangs, and all 5.0 Explorers)

Pushrods-
Again, there are far too many options available to cover here. Check with the cam manufacturer on what length pushrod you will need. Or even better, you can use a pushrod length checker and measure them yourself.

Roller Lifters-
The stock 302 lifters can be swapped over to the 351w with a little machining and grinding. First the spider will require 2 holes to be drilled in the main valley. These holes will be drilled over the cam bearings, so great care should be taken not to damage the camshaft or bearings. Risk can be minimized by removing the camshaft, and drilling the holes before the cam bearing is installed. Some grinding will need to be done to allow the factory 302 dogbones to sit flush on the 351w block as well. A dremel is adequate to get the job done. Be patient and work slow; it is easier to remove material than put it back. Of course it would be best to do this work before having the block cleaned and prepped for assy. Ford Hydraulic Roller lifter (for both the 302 and 351w) part number is M-6500-302.

If all of this does not sound appealing to you then maybe some of the aftermarket roller lifters will be a better option. These tend to be fairly expensive however. Look for lifter pairs that have a link bar, connecting each pair of lifters.

Rocker Arms-
This will depend on the heads you select. All of the same rules that apply to selecting rockers for a 302 still apply to the 351w. Options to consider are Pedestal vs. Stud Mount, Roller vs. Non-Roller, and Brand.

Engine Mounts-
Stock 5.0 mounts will bolt up to the 351w. Aftermarket alternatives include solid mounts and polyurethane mounts. Convertible Engine mounts are supposedly reinforced & stronger. Another alternative is lowering engine mounts from HP Motorsports. These are solid and lower the motor ~¾”. Lowering engine mounts are useful for gaining hood clearance, but will also reduce clearance between the oil pan and stock k-member. This presents clearance issues with some aftermarket pans and stock k-members, but should be ok for the FRPP pan. The use of an aftermarket tubular k-member may help improve clearance.

Heads-
302 heads are the same as the 351w heads with the exception of the head bolt diameter. 302 heads have a 7/16” head bolt hole and the 351w has a ½” head bolt. Opening the holes can be done by hand, if done with care. It would be best to send this work to a machine shop however.

Exhaust Headers-
Stock 302 headers will bolt up the head of a 351w (since the heads are basically the same), but will not mate up to the factory 302 mid-pipe due to the extra width of the 351w. There are many aftermarket suppliers of 351w Fox Body headers including MAC, FRPP, Kooks, Hooker, and Hedman. The Ford shorty headers are p/n M-9430-A58.

Intake Manifold-
Since the lifter valley of the taller 351w is wider than the 302, a new lower intake is required. Aftermarket suppliers of 351w intakes are numerous. Most of these companies offer a 351w lower intake that will bolt up to the 302 upper intakes, which many Mustang owners may already have. Being able to reuse your current upper intake can present a significant $ savings.

Be cautious with intake height if you are trying to clear a stock hood. If the above mentioned drop motor mounts are not used then, another option is to cut down the upper intake. This is easier on the plastic box upper from Comp Cams, as the aluminum intakes will require cutting/welding followed my machining to square up the mating surface.

Shortening the upper intake will cause clearance issues between the TB and valve cover if the upper is trimmed more than ~¾”. Keep in mind that TrickFlow and many other aftermarket head companies have raised the valve cover flange up to .300” which will limit how much you can trim from the upper intake. Of course the use of tall aftermarket valve covers will be somewhat restricted as well. If you do plan on cutting the upper intake, be sure to do a full mock up with all parts that will be installed later. The part numbers for the Ford 351w Cobra manifold are as follows; Upper M-9424-D50 / Lower M-9461-D58.

Oil Pan-
The 351w is wider so a new oil pan is required. The lowest cost option is probably the FRPP 351w pan for Fox Body applications (M-6675-A58). Aftermarket companies have standard volume, high volume, drag race, and road race pans available. A pan specific pickup tube and dipstick will also be necessary. If using a main girdle and/or windage tray, be sure to select an oil pan that will clear these added components. If you can find them 351w equipped Crown Victoria and Grand Marquis had an oil pan that will fit in your Fox Body Mustang.

Oil pump-
The 351w oil pump is different from the 302 (mostly external). These are readily available in standard volume, high volume, and high pressure models. If a high volume oil pump is to be used, it is recommended that a high volume oil pan be used as well (most aftermarket HV pans seem to be 7qt).

Distributor-
The taller 351w does require a longer distributor. This can found from several stock Ford factory efi applications, mostly pickup trucks/vans. Some aftermarket suppliers do have electronic/TFI distributors available, such as MSD and Accel. Be sure that t
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1989 LX 357w Hatch
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Old 01-12-2011   #3
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Default Re: Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.

BY: macx

Starting at the top - you need a diff intake of course.
I found a GT40 351 lower and stock Cobra upper,
but Ford no longer makes them and they've gone up in price. Ebock & Trick Flow make better ones, anyway. You can use
a 302 top with the 351 bottom (match brands/types)- level of perf depends on your build.

You need diff head bolts or studs. 351's are 1/2" versus
the 7/16" for 302. Head gaskets are the same both motors,
you have several good performance choices, also depends
on alum or iron heads. Rockers, covers, etc, are the same.
You need more clearance if you're using roller / hi ratio rockers
so either take out the baffle in your 302 covers or get taller
covers, and/or thicker gasket.

Timing chain setup same. Roller lifters and hold-downs same, IF you have a factory roller 351 block. Those came in 94 & 95 light trucks. Those aren't quite as strong as the earlier blocks, but fine for hot street, still quite a bit stronger than stock 302 blocks.
For older 351's, only way to roller is with retro-fit setup, pretty $.

Same firing order as 302 HO but need 351 efi distrib out of light
truck, and you need to put on the yellow stripe Ford roller cam
steel gear. Has to be drilled/pressed, best to take to machine shop.

Front brackets and accessories from HO fit onto 351 (unless you
have older front accessory setup then you'll need the 351 bracket
for either PS & AC, or PS only).

Diff headers of course. Good motor mounts to use are 302
Mustang convertible. Lower about 1" and heavier duty.

Tranny bolts up, but your flywheel or flexplate and damper
are different balance factor. 28oz versus the 50oz for 302s.
If you get a serpentine 351 motor, you should already have
your pulleys and right damper and shouldn't need the damper
spacer for the drive pulley.

Depending on your climate and AC or not, very possibly need
a heavier duty radiator. Pep Boys or AZ heavy duty brass
MUCH cheaper than alum, and brass actually cools more
efficiently than alum. Good to use a hi flow 180 Tstat like
Mr Gasket. Water pumps interchange, but you have to use
a car timing cover if you're using a car water pump - ones on truck motors are different and the truck water pump only works on the truck timing cover, so make sure you've got both the same, either truck or car. Far as I can tell, stuff bolts on the same to either.

You know about a bigger fuel pump to go with bigger injectors.
You have to get either bigger fuel rails and use braided or
other types of hose for crossover, or if you're not going radical
on injector size and hp you can use 302 rails but you have to
lengthen crossover hoses. Get an efi hose & clamp kit from
AZ - don't use stock type clamps, the efi clamps have rolled
edges so you can tighten them up good without cutting the hose.

You have to have a 351 pan and pickup, Ford and others have them. The Ford one is stock 5 quarts, others are mostly 7 but
much more $. 5 qt is OK for moderate street. Unless you have
a 7 qt pan and are going hi rpm, stay with stock volume pump.
Saves maybe 10 hp, and a hi volume pump can suck a 5 quart
pan dry at higher rpm. 351 pan uses different pan gasket.
Otherwise, gaskets the same. Good one to use is the stock
1 piece.

Get the Ford or i.e. ARP heavy duty oil pump drive shaft.

I found a 99 Mustang bolt on hood scoop that I think/hope
will give me just enuf extra room. Other options are a cowl
hood, or there's also a 70's Mercury musclecar (forgot the model)
scoop available that's a bit taller/wider. Do a search for it.
Either scoop fits the hood lines real nice. Bolt on.

You'll likely want a cold air intake kit, I got a $40 kit off ebay that
works fine, but you'd need bigger diameter if radical motor and
real big throttle body.

If you're keeping smog, you'll have to lengthen the air tube
at the back between the heads. Cut the tube, extend with
silicone radiator hose.

Probably need custom length pushrods. Get a length checker
from i.e. Comp Cams. If you happen to use Ebock heads,
Ford makes a set for 351's w/those heads and .039 standard
compressed thick headgaskets for $40 - not sure if they're
just for pedestal rockers or both types, you'd need to verify.
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1989 LX 357w Hatch
Lightning Block, Bullet Cam, Pro-Comp 210's (< Powered the mother ship in unison with the b-cam), GT-40 Tube, Pro-M 80mm, Lightning T/B, T5Z, 3.73's.
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Old 01-12-2011   #4
 
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Default Re: Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.

Great info - thanks.
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Old 01-12-2011   #5
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Default Re: Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.

Sounds like a great project!!! How much did you get the motor for?? The only thing I would do if it was me is change the camshaft. The cam is really mild due to being for torque and speed density. The block is roller but the stock Lightning camshaft is a flat tappet, you just need the lifters and stuff from a Mustang. Even something mild like a TFS Stage 1 would be a good gain and is not alot of $$. This would up the HP 30+ hp or more.

The bushings you need are these.
Mustang Rear Upper Control Arm Bushings, Differential Side, pair [E4SZ-5A] : Maximum Motorsports, the Latemodel Mustang Performance Suspension Leader!
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Old 01-12-2011   #6
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Default Re: Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.

If your motor is an early 93 motor it might not be roller, look for F4TE stamped in the block..
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Old 01-12-2011   #7
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Default Re: Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.

Thanks guys. I cant remember for the life of me what year the truck was that this came out of. Ive had this engine in my heated basement for about 1.5 years. Trying to remember when Ford changed bodystyles of the F-150's. Its either a 93 or 94. I agreed on 600 for the engine, with the P/O pulling it. I got there and it wasnt out, so i ended up helping. So he knocked around another 60-80 bucks off, for an afternoon of my time. So all in all 520-540 for it. Came from Geneva. Thanks for the info on the bushings! As soon as i can get my camera operating there will be a ton of pictures!

BTW, where exactly is the imprinting on the block loated?, the engine is pretty fully dressed still, minus a couple accessories, and a efi dizzy...
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1989 LX 357w Hatch
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Old 01-12-2011   #8
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Default Re: Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.

Just ordered the bushing kit! Thanks! Can i get some pre-bent brake line for this axle too? I just want to hook the tubber line right to a new T on the pumpkin.The brake shoes and springs are only two years old (prolly have 5k on them), so im just going to swap them over. I didnt replace the brake cylinders tho, so will prolly do that.

The look im going for is semi-stock in the end if you were wondering. The car is very original, except for my bolt on mods so far.
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Michael, yes another one of the 4,200,415.
1989 LX 357w Hatch
Lightning Block, Bullet Cam, Pro-Comp 210's (< Powered the mother ship in unison with the b-cam), GT-40 Tube, Pro-M 80mm, Lightning T/B, T5Z, 3.73's.
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Old 03-30-2011   #9
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Default Re: Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.

Finally had Laura (my G/F) help me unbuury the 8.8 from the spare parts pile. The insides are alll done, 3.73 gears, packed track lock with extra disks by 64Fatblock. Added new gear oil and posi-additive. Going to start cleaning it for painting. And a picture of the 351W tucked in the corner.
Attached Thumbnails
Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.-img_1772.jpg   Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.-img_1773.jpg   Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.-img_1774.jpg   Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.-img_1775.jpg  
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Michael, yes another one of the 4,200,415.
1989 LX 357w Hatch
Lightning Block, Bullet Cam, Pro-Comp 210's (< Powered the mother ship in unison with the b-cam), GT-40 Tube, Pro-M 80mm, Lightning T/B, T5Z, 3.73's.
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Old 04-04-2011   #10
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Default Re: Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.

Did some cleaning up of the rear axle over the weekend. Also painted it with Eastwood Chassis Black (satin). Will start installing as soon as stupid Autozone gets my Hub in for my truck and i can get it out of the garage!..
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1989 LX 357w Hatch
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Old 04-04-2011   #11
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Default Re: Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.

Duh, forgot the pics.
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Michael, yes another one of the 4,200,415.
1989 LX 357w Hatch
Lightning Block, Bullet Cam, Pro-Comp 210's (< Powered the mother ship in unison with the b-cam), GT-40 Tube, Pro-M 80mm, Lightning T/B, T5Z, 3.73's.
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Old 04-04-2011   #12
 
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Default Re: Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.

is it going to ready for watkins glenn??
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Old 04-05-2011   #13
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Default Re: Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.

Yes the car will be ready for Watkins Glen. Just gotta hope all the salt is off the roads by then, at this rate it doesnt look good.. Rear will be installed this weekend. Just slapped another good coat on it last nigh. So one more, let it dry a good couple days and it will be ready for install. Still need to get 2 new wheel cylinders n such, but thats cheap stuff.
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Michael, yes another one of the 4,200,415.
1989 LX 357w Hatch
Lightning Block, Bullet Cam, Pro-Comp 210's (< Powered the mother ship in unison with the b-cam), GT-40 Tube, Pro-M 80mm, Lightning T/B, T5Z, 3.73's.
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Old 04-08-2011   #14
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Default Re: Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.

Starting the procedure of out with the old! All bolts are loose under the car. This Sunday will be the next date for progress.
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Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.-img_1799.jpg   Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.-img_1800.jpg   Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.-img_1801.jpg  
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Michael, yes another one of the 4,200,415.
1989 LX 357w Hatch
Lightning Block, Bullet Cam, Pro-Comp 210's (< Powered the mother ship in unison with the b-cam), GT-40 Tube, Pro-M 80mm, Lightning T/B, T5Z, 3.73's.
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Old 04-11-2011   #15
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Default Re: Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.

Rear axle is in! Just need to bleed the brakes!
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Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.-img_1803.jpg   Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.-img_1804.jpg   Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.-img_1805.jpg   Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.-img_1806.jpg   Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.-img_1807.jpg   Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.-img_1808.jpg   Mike's 302 to 351W Swap.-img_1809.jpg  

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Michael, yes another one of the 4,200,415.
1989 LX 357w Hatch
Lightning Block, Bullet Cam, Pro-Comp 210's (< Powered the mother ship in unison with the b-cam), GT-40 Tube, Pro-M 80mm, Lightning T/B, T5Z, 3.73's.
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